Notes and Queries, Number 46, Saturday, September 14, 1850 written by Various
V >>
Various >> Notes and Queries, Number 46, Saturday, September 14, 1850
P. 48.:
"[Greek: to gar trephon me tout ego kalo theon.]"
P. 145.:
"Vanae sine viribus irae."
P. 119. occurs the "versiculus,"
"Perdere quos vult hos dementat;"
the source of which some of your contributors have endeavoured to
ascertain.
JAMES BLISS.
Ogbourne St. Andrew.
* * * * *
MINOR QUERIES.
_The Spider and the Fly._--Can any of your readers, gentle or simple,
senile or juvenile, inform me, through the medium of your useful and
agreeable periodical, in what collection of nursery rhymes a poem
called, I think, "The Spider and Fly," occurs, and if procurable, where?
The lines I allude to consisted, to the best of my recollection, of a
dialogue between a fly and a spider, and began thus:-- {246}
_Fly_. Spider, spider, what do you spin?
_Spider_. Mainsails for a man-of war.
_Fly_. Spider, spider, 'tis too thin.
Tell me truly, what 'tis for.
_Spider_. 'Tis for curtains for the king,
When he lies in his state bed.
_Fly_. Spider, 'tis too mean a thing,
Tell me why your toils you spread.
&c. &c. &c.
There were other stanzas, I believe, but these are all I can remember.
My notion is, that the verses in question form part of a collection of
nursery songs and rhymes by Charles Lamb, published many years ago, but
now quite out of print. This, however, is a mere surmise on my part, and
has no better foundation than the vein of humour, sprightliness, and
originality, obvious enough in the above extract, which we find running
through and adorning all he wrote. "Nihil quod tetigit non ornavit."
S.J.
_A Lexicon of Types._--Can any of your readers inform me of the
existence of a collection of emblems or types? I do not mean allegorical
pictures, but isolated symbols, alphabetically arranged or otherwise.
Types are constantly to be met with upon monuments, coins, and ancient
title-pages, but so mixed with other matters as to render the finding a
desired symbol, unless very familiar, a work of great difficulty. Could
there be a systematic arrangement of all those known, with their
definitions, it would be a very valuable work of reference,--a work in
which one might pounce upon all the sacred symbols, classic types,
signs, heraldic zoology, conventional botany, monograms, and the like
abstract art.
LUKE LIMNER.
_Montaigne, Select Essays of._--
"Essays selected from Montaigne, with a Sketch of the Life of
the Author. London. For P. Cadell, &c. 1800."
This volume is dedicated to the Rev. William Coxe, rector of Bemerton.
The life of Montaigne is dated the 28th of March, 1800, and signed
_Honoria_. At the end of the book is this advertisement:--
"Lately published by the same Author 'The Female Mentor.' 2d
edit., in 2 vols. 12mo."
Who was _Honoria_? and are these _essays_ a scarce book in England? In
France it is entirely unknown to the numerous commentators on
Montaigne's works.
O.D.
_Custom of wearing the Breast uncovered in Elizabeth's Reign._--Fynes
Moryson, in a well-known passage of his _Itinerary_, (which I suppose I
need not transcribe), tells us that unmarried females and young married
women wore the breasts uncovered in Queen Elizabeth's reign. This is the
custom in many parts of the East. Lamartine mentions it in his pretty
description of Mademoiselle Malagambe: he adds, "it is the custom of the
Arab females." When did this curious custom commence in England, and
when did it go out of fashion?
JARLTZBERG.
_Milton's Lycidas._--In a Dublin edition of Milton's _Paradise Lost_
(1765), in a memoir prefixed I find the following explanation of than
rather obscure passage in _Lycidas_:--
"Besides what the grim wolf, with privy paw,
Daily devours apace, and nothing said;
But that two-handed engine at the door
Stands ready to smite once, and smite no more."
"This poem is not all made up of sorrow and tenderness, there is
a mixture of satire and indignation: for in part of it, the poet
taketh occasion to inveigh against the corruptions of the
clergy, and seemeth to have first discovered his acrimony
against Arb. Laud, and to have threatened him with the loss of
his head, which afterwards happened to him thorough the fury of
his enemies. At least I can think of no sense so proper to be
given to these verses in Lycidas." (p. vii.)
Perhaps some of your numerous correspondents will kindly inform me of
the meaning or meanings usually assigned to this passage.
JARLTZBERG.
_Sitting during the Lessons._--What is the origin of the congregation
remaining seated, while the first and second lessons are read, in the
church service? The rubric is silent on the subject; it merely directs
that the person who reads them shall stand:--
"He that readeth so standing and turning himself, as he may best
be heard of all such as are present."
With respect to the practice of sitting while the epistle is read, and
of standing while the gospel is read, in the communion service; there is
in the rubric a distinct direction that "all the people are to stand up"
during the latter, while it is silent as to the former. From the silence
of the rubric as to standing during the two lessons of the morning
service, and the epistle in the communion service, it seems to have been
inferred that the people were to sit. But why are they directed to stand
during the gospel in the communion service, while they sit during the
second lesson in the morning service?
L.
_Blew-Beer._--Sir, having taken a Note according to your very sound
advice, I addressed a letter to the _John Bull_ newspaper, which was
published on Saturday, Feb. 16. It contained an extract from a political
tract, entitled,--
"The true History of Betty Ireland, with some Account of her
Sister Blanche of Brittain. Printed for J. Robinson, at the
Golden Lion in Ludgate Street, MDCCLIII. (1753)." {247}
In allusion to the English the following passage occurs,--
"But they forget, they are all so idle and debauched, such
gobbling and drinking rascals, and expensive in _blew-beer_,"
&c.
Query the unde derivatur of _blew-beer_, and if it is to be taken in the
same sense as the modern phrase of "blue ruin," and if so, the cause of
the change or history of both expressions?
H.
_Carpatio._--I have lately met with a large aquatinted engraving,
bearing the following descriptive title: "Angliae Regis Legati
inspiciuntur Sponsam petentes Filiam Dionati Cornubiae Regis pro Anglo
Principe." The costume of the figures is of the latter half of the
fifteenth century. The painter's name appears on a scroll, OP. VICTOR
CARPATIO VENETI. The copy of the picture for engraving was drawn by
Giovanni de Pian, and engraved by the same person and Francesco
Gallimberti, at Venice. I do not find the name of Carpatio in the
ordinary dictionaries of painters, and shall be glad to learn whether he
has here represented an historical event, or an incident of some
mediaeval romance. I suspect the latter must be the case, as _Cornubia_
is the Latin word used for Cornwall, and I am not aware of its having
any other application. Is this print the only one of the kind, or is it
one of a set?
J.G.N.
_Value of Money in Reign of Charles II._--Will any of your
correspondents inform me of the value of 1000l. circa Charles II. in
present money, and the mode in which the difference is estimated?
DION X.
_Bishop Berkeley--Adventures of Gaudentio di Lucca._--I have a volume
containing the adventures of Signor Gaudentio di Lucca, with his
examination before the Inquisition of Bologna. In a bookseller's
catalogue I have seen it ascribed to Bishop Berkeley. Can any of your
readers inform me who was the author, or give me any particulars as to
the book?
IOTA.
_Cupid and Psyche._--Can any of your learned correspondents inform me
whether the fable of Cupid and Psyche was invented by Apuleius; or
whether he made use of a superstition then current, turning it, as it
suited his purpose, into the beautiful fable which has been handed down
to us as his composition?
W.M.
_Zuend-nadel Guns._--In paper of September or October last, I saw a
letter dated Berlin, Sept. 11, which commenced--
"We have had this morning a splendid military spectacle, and
being the first of the kind since the revolution, attracted
immense crowds to the scene of action."
"The Fusileer battalions (light infantry) were all armed with
the new zuend-nadel guns, the advantages and superiority of which
over the common percussion musket now admits of no
contradiction, with the sole exception of the facility of
loading being an inducement to fire somewhat too quick, when
firing independently, as in battle, or when acting en
tirailleur. The invincible pedantry and amour-propre of our
armourers and inspectors of arms in England, their
disinclination to adopt inventions not of English growth, and
their slowness to avail themselves of new models until they are
no longer new, will, undoubtedly, exercise the usual influence
over giving this powerful weapon even a chance in England. It is
scarcely necessary to point out the great advantages that these
weapons, carrying, let us say, 800 yards with perfect accuracy,
have over our muskets, of which the range does not exceed 150,
and that very uncertain. Another great advantage of the
zuend-nadel is, that rifles or light infantry can load with ease
without effort when lying flat on the ground. The opponents of
the zuend-nadel talk of over-rapid firing and the impossibility
of carrying sufficient ammunition to supply the demands. This is
certainly a drawback, but it is compensated by the immense
advantage of being able to pour in a deadly fire when you
yourself are out of range, or of continuing this fire so
speedily as to destroy half your opponents before they can
return a shot with a chance of taking effect."
This was the first intimation I ever had of the zuend-nadel guns. I
should like to know when and by whom they were invented, and their
mechanism.
JARLTZBERG.
_Bacon Family, Origin of the Name._--Among the able notes, or the
_not_-able Queries of a recent Number, (I regret that I have it not at
hand, for an exact quotation), a learned correspondent mentioned, _en
passant_, that the word _bacon_ had the obsolete signification of
"_dried wood_." As a patronymic, BACON has been not a little
illustrious, in literature, science, and art; and it would be
interesting to know whether the name has its origin in the crackling
fagot or in the cured flitch. Can any of your genealogical
correspondents help me to authority on the subject?
A modern motto of the Somersetshire Bacons has an ingenious rebus:
ProBa-conSCIENTIA;
the capitals, thus placed, giving it the double reading, Proba
coniscientia, and Pro Bacon Scientia.
NOCAB.
_Armorials._--Sable, a fesse or, in chief two fleurs de lis or, in base
a hind courant argent. E.D.B. will feel grateful to any gentlemen who
will kindly inform him of the name of the family to which the above coat
belonged. They were quartered by Richard or Roger Barow, of Wynthorpe,
in Lincolnshire (_Harl. MS._ 1552. 42 _b_), who died in 1505.
E.D.B.
_Artephius, the Chemical Philosopher._--What is known of the chemical
philosopher Artephius? He is mentioned in Jocker's _Dictionary_, and by
Roger Bacon (in the _Opus Majus_ and elsewhere), {248} and a tract
ascribed to him is printed in the _Theatrum Chemicum_.
E.
_Sir Robert Howard._--Can any reader assist me in finding out the author
of
"A Discourse of the Nationall Excellencies of England. By R.H.,
London. Printed by Thomas Newcomb for Henry Fletcher, at the
Three Gilt Cups in the New Buildings, near the west end of St.
Paul's, 1658. 12 mo., pp. 248."
This is a very remarkable work, written in an admirable style, and
wholly free from the coarse party spirit which then generally prevailed.
The writer declares, p. 235., he had not subscribed the engagement, and
there are internal evidences of his being a churchman and a monarchist.
Is there any proof of its having been written by Sir Robert Howard? A
former possessor of the copy now before me, has written his name on the
title-page as its conjectured author. My copy of Sir Robert's _Poems_,
published two years after, was published not by _Fletcher_, but by
"Henry Herringman, at the sign of the Anchor, in the lower walk of the
New Exchange." John Dryden, Sir Robert's brother-in-law, in the
complimentary stanzas on Howard's poems, says,
"To write worthy things of worthy men,
Is the peculiar talent of your pen."
I would further inquire if a reason can be assigned for the omission
from Sir Robert Howard's collected plays of _The Blind Lady_, the only
dramatic piece given in the volume of poems of 1660. My copy is the
third edition, published by Tonson, 1722.
A.B.R.
_Crozier and Pastoral Staff._--What is the real difference between a
crozier and a pastoral staff?
I.Z.P.
_Marks of Cadency._--The copious manner in which your correspondent E.K.
(Vol. ii., p. 221.) has answered the question as to the "when and why"
of the unicorn being introduced as one of the supporters of the royal
arms, induces me to think that he will readily and satisfactorily
respond to an heraldic inquiry of a somewhat more intricate nature.
What were the peculiar marks of cadency used by the heirs to the crown,
apparent and presumptive, after the accession of the Stuarts? For
example, what were the changes, if any, upon the label or file of
difference used in the coat-armour of Henry, Prince of Wales, eldest son
of James I., and of his brother Charles, when Prince of Wales, and so
on, to the present time?
_Miniature Gibbet, &c._--A correspondent of the _Times_ newspaper has
recently given the following account of an occurrence which took place
about twenty-five years ago, and the concluding ceremony of which he
personally witnessed:--
"A man had been condemned to be hung for murder. On the Sunday
morning previous to the sentence being carried into execution,
he contrived to commit suicide in the prison by cutting his
throat with a razor. On Monday morning, according to the then
custom, his body was brought out from Newgate in a cart; and
after Jack Ketch had exhibited to the people a small model
gallows, with a razor hanging therefrom, in the presence of the
sheriffs and city authorities, he was thrown into a hole dug for
that purpose. A stake was driven through his body, and a
quantity of lime thrown in over it."
Will any correspondent of "NOTES AND QUERIES" give a solution of this
extraordinary exhibition? Had the sheriffs and city authorities any
legal sanction for Jack Ketch's disgusting part in the performances?
What are the meaning and origin of driving a stake through the body of a
suicide?
A.G.
Ecclesfield
* * * * *
REPLIES
COLLAR OF SS.
If you desire proof of the great utility of your publication, methinks
there is a goodly quantum of it in the very interesting and valuable
information on the Collar of SS., which the short simple question of B.
(Vol. ii., p. 89.) has drawn forth; all tending to illustrate a mooted
historical question:--first, in the reply of [Greek: Phi.] (Vol. ii., p.
110.), giving reference to the _Gentleman's Magazine_, with two
_rider_-Queries; then MR. NICHOLS'S announcement (Vol. ii., p. 140.) of
a forthcoming volume on the subject, and a reply in part to the Query of
[Greek: Phi.]; then (Vol. ii, p. 171.) MR. E. FOSS, as to the _rank_ of
the legal worthies allowed to wear this badge of honour; and next (Vol.
ii., p. 194.) an ARMIGER, who, though he rides rather high on the
subject, over all the Querists and Replyists, deserves many thanks for
his very instructive and scholarlike dissertation.
What the S. signifies has evidently been a puzzle. That a chain is a
badge of honour, there can be no doubt; but may not the _Esses_, after
all, mean nothing at all? originating in the simple S. link, a form
often used in chain-work, and under the name of S. A series of such,
linked together, would produce an elegant design, which in the course of
years would be wrought more like the letter, and be embellished and
varied according to the skill and taste of the workman, and so, that
which at first had no particular meaning, and was merely accidental,
would, after a time, be _supposed_ to be the _initial letters_ of what
is now only guessed at, or be involved in heraldic mystery. As for
[Greek: Phi.]'s rider-Query (Vol ii., p. 110.), repeated by MR. FOSS
(Vol. ii., p. 171.), as to dates,--it may be one step towards a reply if
I here mention, that in Yatton Church, Somerset, there {249} is a
beautifully wrought alabaster monument, without inscription, but
traditionally ascribed to judge Newton, alias Cradock, and his wife Emma
de Wyke. There can be no doubt, from the costume, that the effigy is
that of a judge, and under his robes is visible the Collar of Esses. The
monument is in what is called the Wyke aisle or chapel. That it is
Cradock's, is confirmed by a garb or wheat-sheaf, on which his head is
laid. (The arms of Cradock are, Arg. on a chevron az. 3 _garbs_ or.)
Besides, in the very interesting accounts of the churchwardens of the
parish, annis 1450-1, among the receipts there is this entry:
"It.: Recipim. de Dna de Wyke p. man. T. Newton filii sui de
legato Dni. Riei. Newton ad ---- p. campana ... xx."
Richard Cradock was the first of his family who took the name of Newton,
and I have been informed that the last fine levied before him was, Oct.
Mart. 27 Hen. VI. (Nov. 1448), proving that the canopied altar tomb in
Bristol Cathedral, assigned to him, and recording that he died 1444,
must be an error. It is stated, that the latter monument was defaced
during the civil wars, and repaired in 1747, which is, probably, all
that is true of it. But this would carry me into another subject, to
which, perhaps, I may be allowed to return some other day. However, we
have got a date for the use of the collar by the _chief_ judges,
_earlier_ than that assigned by MR. FOSS, and it is somewhat
confirmatory of what he tells us, that it was not worn by any of the
_puisne_ order.
H.T. ELLACOMBE.
Bitton, Aug. 1850.
* * * * *
_The Livery Collar of SS._--Though ARMIGER (Vol. ii., p. 194.) has not
adduced any facts on this subject that were previously unknown to me, he
has advanced some misstatements and advocated some erroneous notions,
which it may be desirable at once to oppose and contradict; inasmuch as
they are calculated to envelope in fresh obscurity certain particulars,
which it was the object of my former researches to set forth in their
true light. And first, I beg to say that with respect to the "four
inaccuracies" with which he charges me, I do not plead guilty to any of
them. 1st. When B. asked the question, "Is there any list of persons who
were honoured with that badge?" it was evident that he meant, Is there
any list of the names of such persons, as of the Knights of the Garter
or the Bath? and I correctly answered, No: for there still is no such
list. The description of the classes of persons who might use the collar
in the 2 Hen. IV. is not such a list as B. asked for. 2dly. Where I said
"That persons were not honoured with the badge, in the sense that
persons are now decorated with stars, crosses, or medals," I am again
unrefuted by the statute of 2 Hen. IV., and fully supported by many
historical facts. I repeat that the livery collar was not worn as a
badge of honour, but as a badge of feudal allegiance. It seems to have
been regarded as giving certain weight and authority to the wearer, and,
therefore, was only to be worn in the king's presence, or in coming to
and from the king's hostel, except by the higher ranks; and this
entirely confirms my view. Had it been a mere personal decoration, like
the collar of an order of knighthood, there would have been no reason
for such prohibition; but as it conveyed the impression that the wearer
was especially one of the king's immediate military or household
servants, and invested with certain power or influence on that ground,
therefore its assumption away from the neighbourhood of the court was
prohibited, except to individuals otherwise well known from their
personal rank and station. 3dly. When ARMIGER declares I am wrong in
saying "That the collar was _assumed_," I have every reason to believe I
am still right. I may admit that, if it was literally a livery, it would
be worn only by those to whom the king gave it; but my present
impression is, that it was termed the king's livery, as being of the
pattern which was originally distributed by the king, or by the Duke of
Lancaster his father, to his immediate adherents, but which was
afterwards _assumed_ by all who were anxious to assert their loyalty, or
distinguish their partizanship as true Lancastrians; so that the statute
of 2 Hen. IV. was rendered necessary to restrain its undue and
extravagant _assumption_, for sundry good political reasons, some notion
of which may be gathered by perusing the poem on the deposition of
Richard II. published by the Camden Society. And 4thly, Where ARMIGER
disputes my conclusion, that the assumers were, so far as can be
ascertained, those who were attached to the royal household or service,
it will be perceived, by what I have already stated, that I still adhere
to that conclusion. I do not, therefore, admit that the statute of 2
Henry IV. shows me to be incorrect in any one of those four particulars.
ARMIGER next proceeds to allude to Manlius Torquatus, who won and wore
the golden torc of a vanquished Gaul: but this story only goes to prove
that the collar of the Roman _torquati_ originated in a totally
different way from the Lancastrian collar of livery. ARMIGER goes on to
enumerate the several derivations of the Collar of Esses--from the
initial letter of _Soverayne_, from _St. Simplicius_, from _St. Crispin_
and _St. Crispinian_, the martyrs of Soissons, from the _Countess of
Salisbury_, from the word _Souvenez_, and lastly, from the office of
_Seneschalus_, or Steward of England, held by John of Ghent,--which is,
as he says, "Mr. Nichols's notion," but the whole of which he
stigmatises alike "as mere monkish or heraldic gossip;" and, finally, he
proceeds to unfold his own recondite discovery, "viz. that it comes from
the S-shaped lever upon the bit {250} of the bridle of the war
steed,"--a conjecture which will assuredly have fewer adherents than any
one of its predecessors. But now comes forth the disclosure of what
school of heraldry this ARMIGER is the champion. He is one who can tell
us of "many more rights and privileges than are dreamt of in the
philosophy either of the court of St. James's or the college of St.
Bennet's Hill!" In short, he is the mouthpiece of "the Baronets'
Committee for Privileges." And this is the law which he lays down:--
"The persons now privileged to wear the ancient golden collar of
SS. are the _equites aurati_, or knights (chevaliers) in the
British monarchy, a body which includes all the hereditary order
of baronets in England, Scotland, and Ireland, with such of
their eldest sons, being of age, as choose to claim inauguration
as knights."
Here we have a full confession of a large part of the faith of the
Baronets' Committee,--a committee of which the greater number of those
who lent their names to it are probably by this time heartily ashamed.
It is the doctrine held forth in several works on the Baronetage
compiled by a person calling himself "Sir Richard Broun," of whom we
read in Dodd's _Baronetage_, that "previous to succeeding his father, he
demanded inauguration as a knight, in the capacity of a baronet's eldest
son; but the Lord Chamberlain having refused to present him to the Queen
for that purpose, he assumed the title of 'Sir,' and the addition of
'Eques Auratus,' in June, 1842." So we see that ARMIGER and the Lord
Chamberlain are at variance as to part of the law above cited; and so,
it might be added, have been other legal authorities, to the privileges
asserted by the mouthpiece of the said committee. But that is a long
story, on which I do not intend here to enter. I had not forgotten that
in one of the publications of Sir Richard Broun the armorial coat of the
premier baronet of each division is represented encircled with a Collar
of Esses; but I should never have thought of alluding to this freak,
except as an amusing instance of fantastic assumption. I will now
confine myself to what has appeared in the pages of "NOTES AND QUERIES;"
and, more particularly, to the unfounded assertion of ARMIGER in p.
194., "that the golden Collar of SS. was the undoubted badge or mark of
a knight, _eques auratus_;" which he follows up by the dictum already
quoted, that "the persons now privileged to wear the ancient golden
Collar of SS. are the _equites aurati_." I believe it is generally
admitted that knights were _equites aurati_ because they wore golden or
gilt spurs; certainly it was not because they wore golden collars, as
ARMIGER seems to wish us to believe; and the best proof that the Collar
of Esses was not the badge of a knight, as such, at the time when such
collars were most worn, in the fifteenth century, is this--that the
monumental effigies and sepulchral brasses of many knights at that time
are still extant which have no Collar of Esses; whilst the Collar of
Esses appears only on the figures of a limited number, who were
undoubtedly such as wished to profess their especial adherence to the
royal House of Lancaster.